The Hill Times, December 20th, 2004
NEWS STORY
By F. Abbas
Rana
Grit MP
O'Brien predicts four more Cabinet ministers to struggle with same-sex bill
Government
backbencher Pat O'Brien, who is pushing for national referendum on same-sex
marriage, says at least four other Cabinet ministers, along with Natural
Resources Minister John Efford and junior Cabinet minister for Federal Economic
Development Initiative for Northern Ontario Joe Comuzzi, have serious
reservations about supporting the upcoming same-sex marriage legislation and
would vote against it if it were a truly free vote.
"There
are at least half a dozen Ministers who I believe if they were given a free vote
will vote against this," said Mr. O'Brien (London-Fanshawe, Ont.) in an
interview with The Hill Times last week, but refused to identify the Cabinet
ministers. Mr. O'Brien said he learned about these Cabinet ministers in his
private conversations.
Meanwhile,
other current Cabinet ministers, who were not part of Cabinet at the time and
who voted in favour of the traditional definition of marriage back in September,
2003, in the Commons included: Labour Minister Joe Fontana (London North Centre,
Ont.), Veterans Affairs Minister Albina Guarnieri (Mississauga East-Cooksville,
Ont.), Immigration Minister Judy Sgro (York West, Ont.) Human Resources and
Skills Development Minister Joe Volpe (Eglinton-Lawrence, Ont.) and ACOA
Minister Joe McGuire (Egmont, P.E.I.).
It's expected
all of these Cabinet ministers will vote with the government. Mr. McGuire's
office told The Hill Times that Mr. McGuire will vote with the government.
"As a member of Cabinet, he will vote for the government's
legislation," said Valérie Poulin, a spokesperson for Mr. McGuire.
Ms. Poulin
added that Mr. McGuire takes comfort in the fact the legislation won't impact
the freedom of churches and religious groups to conduct marriage ceremonies.
One source
close to the government told The Hill Times that the controversial legislation
will likely pass, but that it won't be easy. The source said there's a lot of
behind-the-scenes arm-twisting going on right now.
A vocal
critic of same-sex marriage, Mr. O'Brien, who was first elected to the House in
1993, said that public opinion should be taken into consideration before the
government introduces any legislation on this issue in the House at the end of
next month. And, he added that the best way to guage public opinion would be to
get it through a non-binding national referendum and not through public opinion
polls.
"It
deserves serious consideration. I don't know what the fear of a referendum is. I
would suggest that it would be non-binding. You'd go to the Canadian public and
clearly ask them a couple of clear questions and give them a chance to
personally and directly speak their views," said Mr. O'Brien.
"This
may be one of those times where you are talking about something that is so
fundamental to Canadians, it's such an emotional issue that we may have a good
case to go directly to them. You've heard about all these different polls,
different interpretations of what people think, find out directly so that would
be the value to do it that way."
Mr. O'Brien
said in his view two clear questions should be asked: "Do you support
changing the definition of marriage to include a same-sex relationship?"
and "Do you support the legal recognition of same-sex relationships, but
short of changing the law to call it a marriage?" Mr. O'Brien said these
questions would yield clear responses from Canadians.
Declared Mr.
O'Brien: "The use would be a very clear statement of the public's point of
view on it without being filtered through media or pollsters."
When asked if
he trusts the media and public opinion polls, Mr. O'Brien said: "It's not
that I don't trust them. It's just that they are all over the map. So, I don't
think they are reliable enough tool for the government to base its any decisions
on it. If you want to factor in the public opinion and I certainly think you
should, then get it unfiltered."
But Mr.
Martin and the leaders of the three other federal parties Conservative Stephen
Harper (Calgary Southwest, Alta.) Bloc Gilles Duceppe (Laurier-Sainte-Marie,
Que.) and NDP Jack Layton (Toronto-Danforth, Ont.) shot down the idea of a
national referendum first proposed by Alberta Premier Ralph Klein.
"We
haven't been demanding a referendum," said Mr. Harper. "The only thing
maybe I could add is I gather Premier Klein has suggested a plebiscite or
referendum. If Premier Klein is committed to that, he can always do that in the
province of Alberta."
Mr. Harper
himself was, however, under sharp criticism from the Prime Minister last week
who said that the Leader of the Official Opposition has shown "a lack of
courage and a clear lack of leadership" on this issue. Mr. Harper, in turn,
came out swinging back and challenged Mr. Martin to allow his MPs and Cabinet
ministers to cast their vote according to their consciences.
For Liberal
MPs, a vote on same-sex marriage will be a free vote, but the Cabinet ministers
will have to maintain Cabinet solidarity and will have to vote with the
government.
The
government can count on solid support from the NDP and Bloc caucuses with a few
exceptions. The NDP's veteran MP Bev Desjarlais (Churchill, Man.), and two or
three Bloc MPs, who have not spoken publicly yet, are expected to vote against
the legislation.
As for the
Conservative Party, its 99-member caucus will reject the bill en masse, except
for Belinda Stronach (Newmarket-Aurora, Ont.) and James Moore (Port
Moody-Westwood-Port Coquitlam, B.C.), both of whom have said they would support
legislation to legalize same-sex marriage.
The
head-counting has already started in earnest, by party whips and media. The
Globe and Mail citing unnamed sources predicted last week that "about 40 of
the Liberals' 134 members will vote against the bill, and that the legislation
will eventually pass by about 25 votes."
Meanwhile,
Nova Scotia Liberal Senator Terry Mercer described the idea of holding a
national referendum as "silly," adding that MPs are elected by
Canadians and that they should take a clear stand on this issue.
"The
referendum is a silly idea. Being elected to Parliament and government's, being
selected by the people, is all about leadership and leadership is all about
making decisions and decisions aren't always easy," said Sen. Mercer who
was appointed to the Senate by former prime minister Jean Chrétien last year.
"I'm a
practising Catholic. I know how my church stands on this and, quite frankly, I
don't care how they stand on this because they're wrong. It's a question of
human rights. The God I know, the Christ I follow doesn't discriminate against
people because of their sexual orientation and a number of the churches,
including my own, should be very careful about criticizing. They should clean
out their own houses first."
Sen. Mercer
said that he supports the government's position to not allowing a vote on
same-sex marriage to be a free vote for Cabinet ministers.
"Not for
Cabinet ministers. You're on the team or you're off. If you're a backbencher,
that's one thing, if you're in the Senate where you have no Cabinet
responsibilities, that's another thing. Vote your conscience. However, if you're
in the Cabinet, a price of being in the Cabinet is to follow Government policy.
You don't follow government policy, you're out." Arana@hilltimes.com
The Hill Times
Libs who
voted for traditional marriage in 2003
Liberals who
voted in favour of the Alliance moved on Sept. 16, 2003 "that, in the
opinion of this House, it is necessary, in light of public debate around recent
court decisions, to reaffirm that marriage is and should remain the union of one
man and one woman to the exclusion of all others, and that Parliament take all
necessary steps within the jurisdiction of the Parliament of Canada to preserve
this definition of marriage in Canada."
* Raymond
Bonin (Nickel Belt, Ont.)
* Brenda
Chamberlain (Guelph, Ont.)
* John Efford
(Avalon, Nfld. & Lab.)
* Mark Eyking
(Syndey-Victoria, N.S.)
* Joe Fontana
(London North Centre, Ont.)
* Albina
Guarnieri (Mississauga East-Cooksville, Ont.)
* Charles
Hubbard (Miramichi, N.B.)
* Jim
Karygiannis (Scarborough-Agincourt, Ont.)
* Walt
Lastewka (St. Catharines, Ont.)
* Derek Lee
(Scarborough-Rouge River, Ont.)
* Judi
Longfield (Whitby-Oshawa, Ont.)
* Gurbax
Malhi (Bramalea-Gore-Malton, Ont.)
* John
Maloney (Welland, Ont.)
* Keith
Martin (Esquimalt-Juan de Fuca, B.C.)
* Joe McGuire
(Egmont, P.E.I.)
* John McKay
(Scarborough Guildwood, Ont.)
* Dan
McTeague (Pickering-Scarborough East, Ont.)
* Shawn
Murphy (Charlottetown, P.E.I.)
* Pat O'Brien
(London-Fanshawe, Ont.)
* Jerry
Pickard (Chatham-Kent Essex, Ont.)
* Andy Savoy
(Tobique-Mactaquac, N.B.)
* Judy Sgro
(York West, Ont.)
* Paul
Steckle (Huron-Bruce, Ont.)
* Paul Szabo
(Mississauga South, Ont.)
* Alan Tonks
(York South-Weston, Ont.)
* Rose-Marie
Ur (Middlesex-Kent-Lambton, Ont.)
* Joe Volpe (Eglinton-Lawrence,
Ont.)
* Tom Wappel
(Scarborough Southwest, Ont.)
* Bryon
Wilfert (Richmand Hill, Ont.)
--Total: 29
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